Erika T. Wurth: On the Paranormal, Intergenerational Trauma, Indigenous Author Recs and Her Novel "White Horse"
Kari James loves Stephen King novels, metal, and hanging out at a local bar, the White Horse, for an occasional beer. Her world is turned upside down when her cousin Debby finds an old bracelet that belonged to Kari’s missing mother. She is soon haunted by visions and even real ghosts as she works to find out what happened to her mother all those years ago. White Horse is a thrilling tale about family, dysfunctional relationships, spirituality, heritage, and a daughter’s journey to understanding.
I spoke with Erika T. Wurth about writing White Horse, what drew her to the horror genre and the paranormal, stories from her Chickasaw descent, intergenerational trauma, and Indigenous authors she loves to recommend.
“Some people are haunted in more ways than one.” I love the tagline for your book. Kari is haunted by a literal ghost and by the worldly horrors of poverty, addiction, and abuse. I would love to hear your thoughts about bringing these two together in your work.
The tagline is one of my editors, and I love it. Maxine Charles is excellent in that regard. You know, I'm not sure I would characterize the substance abuse in the novel precisely as addiction. Kari likes a beer here and there. Her father was not an alcoholic, he became an abuser of alcohol when he let his emotional life overwhelm him when his wife disappeared. The character that would count might be Jamie, but I think the tragedy of the novel is that both Kari and Jamie were just young and messed up and it was easier to deal with their issues through substances, and Jaime just drew the short end one day. Poverty is there, but I want to be clear, I grew up semi middle-class thought my parents grew up poor, and the characters in the novel, and the folks that I grew up with in Idaho Springs, some were poor, but some were just working and working middle class, which probably does translate to poor, to outsiders. Abuse is central to the novel. I don’t want spoil anything, but I will say that what I wanted to talk about was the way in which abuse can be intergenerational, and can even pass to folks as damage when they don't even know that there's been abuse in their past.
When we first meet Kari, she mostly ignores the spiritual aspects of her Apache and Chickasaw ancestors (until she can’t any longer, of course.) What were some of the legends/folklore/traditions of Indigenous culture that you aimed to include? Did one of these spark the initial concept of the story for you?
Absolutely, Kari is comfortable as an urban indigenous person, but she's very Gen-X, the novel’s set in 2016, and on top of it she's tremendously pragmatic. So despite the fact that she grows up with more spiritual family members like Auntie Squeaker from her Mexican Indigenous side, until it comes to her, it's not interesting. As to tradish stories, I’m of Chickasaw descent, and to my mind there's nothing creepier than the Lofa--an evil Bigfoot of sorts who kidnaps women, and peels peoples skin off and eats it! Additionally, I wanted to talk about very real parts of indigenous history like Geronimo, as someone of Apache descent. But primarily the novel is paranormal and involves ghosts, and ghosts that might be metaphors for intergenerational trauma. And in a less metaphorical sense, the main character is inevitably haunted by a mother she thinks disappeared when she was two days old, but might've been murdered. The spark for me is my fascination with the paranormal, anything to do with ghosts or portals or haunted mirrors fascinates me.
I love that this story is titled and built around a bar, the White Horse. And that Kari works in the service industry as a waitress. Why did you choose these settings, and what do they mean to you?
The White Horse is a bar that just closed in Denver. It's a historic bar, and it was a gathering place for Denver natives for 50 years or perhaps more. I've heard stories about that bar--people running out of that bar with babies--countless stories--that took place in that bar. As far as why Kari is a waitress and a bartender, I wanted to give dignity to people who aren't necessarily formally educated, but self-educated. Kari works hard, she makes decent money, and she has a very large knowledge base when it comes to horror, heavy metal, and Denver history.
Let’s talk about the genre of horror. What draws you to it? What do you love most about it?
As I've said before, I have a tremendous fascination for the paranormal. I've never really seen anything, but I have family members who absolutely feel that they have, and I grew up with people who saw what they felt was paranormal phenomenon all the time, whether that was white folks seeing the eyes of the devil staring through their trailer windows, or more traditional Native stuff like creatures whistling in the darkness, knowing you shouldn't whistle back. I think what I like about it is that it is a space where I can do all the things I did when I was writing realism, I can look at gritty realities that very much take place on this planet, but I'm allowed these great dark magics, which I adore.
What does your writing routine look like? How long did it take you to write White Horse?
I try to steal as much writing time as I can, whenever I can steal it, though I would say I'm more of a morning writer than I used to be. As far as how long it took to write White Horse, it depends on how you look at it. It was a short story collection possibly a decade and a half an hour ago--then a garbage novel. Then a bad novel with multiple POVs, and then I started to really understand structure better, and see that I was drawn to writing horror--and the last most important versions probably took two years.
This is your third novel. How did this writing process differ from your other two novels? What advice do you have for others who are working on novels right now? Or what was something you held on to that helped you finish your book?
Like I said, in my opinion knowing what you truly love to write--and being honest with yourself about what you're reading or truly want to read, and paying attention to structure. In academia, and especially during my doctorate, there is very little talk about plot or structure and a very unexamined feeling that somehow there are two “genres:" literary and genre, neither of which are genres. So what helped me was looking at more nuts and bolts craft books about structure and story, which I have always valued. Of course, I think complex characterization, depth of theme, and attention to form and language (conventions that define literary fiction, and they can be applied to any genre), are things that I care about. But reading Ben Percy’s Thrill Me, Chuck Wendig’s Damn Fine Story, and Jane Cleland’s Mastering Suspense, Structure, and Plot were instrumental.
Who are some other Indigenous authors you are loving right now?
I am well known in my community for advocating for writers and certainly for Indigenous writers. And I would urge people to google my name and read all the articles that I've written on the subject. But three cool indigenous writers of horror are: Stephen Graham Jones, V. Castro, and Shane Hawk. Two realism writers who are just bang up, are Kelli Jo Ford and Brandon Hobson. Then there's my partner, a thriller writer, David Heska Wanbli Weiden. And Rebecca Roanhorse a dark fantasy writer, is radically changing the landscape of Native American literature.
What's your favorite Stephen King novel?
That's tough! I would say it's in between The Shining (of course) and his collection, Different Seasons.
Erika T. Wurth’s novel WHITE HORSE is with Flatiron/Macmillan. She is both a Kenyon and Sewanee fellow, has published in The Kenyon Review, Buzzfeed, and The Writer’s Chronicle, and is a narrative artist for the Meow Wolf Denver installation. She is a professor of creative writing at Western Illinois University and faculty at the low-res MFA program at Regis University. She is an urban Native of Apache/Chickasaw/Cherokee descent. She is represented by Rebecca Friedman (books) and Dana Spector (film). She lives in Denver with her partner, step-kids and two incredibly fluffy dogs.
