In the Spotlight: Isaura Ren on Running perhappened mag & press, Social Media, and Their Upcoming Chapbook “NO HEROES”
Last year, poet and editor Isaura Ren self-published their debut chapbook interlucent. As if releasing a chapbook during a pandemic wasn’t challenging enough, they were also working on writing new poems and managing the growing online literary magazine (and since-developed press) perhappened. Now, Ren is getting ready to drop their second chapbook (due out later this year), which people will be able to read for free upon release.
I spoke with Ren via Google Docs about self-publishing their chapbooks, social media and mental health, their writing process, and their upcoming collection NO HEROES.
Erica Abbott: First of all, congratulations on your upcoming second chapbook! Can you tell me about how this collection came to be and how it differs from your first chapbook outside of its theme?
Isaura Ren: Thank you so much! NO HEROES came about thanks to its lead poem, “passive protagonist,” materializing so easily for me. After I wrote “passive protagonist,” I felt there was so much more to say -- I wanted to keep playing with this trope of the hero’s journey through poetics. The idea wouldn’t leave me alone, and the structure of this collection came about so naturally, thanks to my storytelling instincts as a fiction writer (and aspiring novelist). It just felt right. While interlucent was largely a personal history, NO HEROES is a more broad-brush look at survival, passivity, and rewriting the story of your own life. I hope it can resonate with readers, especially other survivors and marginalized people. I’m learning that my poetry can and should reflect more than just me.
EA: You write about how NO HEROES “revolves around how we mythologize our lives, our bodies and our scars, as well as how we navigate the non-linear journey of trauma.” Assuming they are, which elements of mythology are most present in the collection? Are there certain myths you focus on and how are they interwoven with the journey of trauma?
IR: I definitely play with mythology in this collection, but do so more vaguely than overtly. I worried that name-dropping too many mythic figures in my poems didn’t feel authentic. Many poets do that (and do so quite well), but it didn’t feel true to my contemporary style to write poems through a mythological lens. I also didn’t want to alienate any readers unfamiliar with the western, Eurocentric mythologies I know. Rather, I echo the overarching themes of these myths and parables in a sort of oblique way, though some figures are named outright (Narcissus, looking at you!). There’s also a Biblical flavor to some of these poems -- as a once-Catholic, that was probably inevitable!
I think any story, at its core, is about how conflict, struggle, and pain change us. When you believe that, trauma seems a natural consequence of growth (and vice versa). I would never insist that trauma is necessary for growth. Nobody asks for their trauma, hence the driving force behind “passive protagonist.” That titular term is used in a derogatory way toward protagonists in fiction: when trauma happens to them, they are seen as having allowed it, having allowed life to happen to them rather than affecting their destiny.
I personally think “destiny” is bullshit. Sure, many things can’t be avoided, but it’s what we do in the aftermath that forges us. I reject the concept of “heroes.” Heroes are traditionally these active, decision-making, destiny-seizing protagonists, but I don’t believe any protagonist (or person) is “passive.” Marginalized characters, especially characters of color, are targeted with this label when they’re just trying to survive. Survival is heroic. We are always, all of us, writing our lives. So NO HEROES builds off the resignation of “passive protagonist” to pen a new narrative, one of resilience and rebirth, set in the after. This collection begged to be a follow-up. In many ways, it feels like an epilogue. Whatever happens after this, it’ll be a departure, and I’ll be stronger for it.
EA: How did you come to the decision to make NO HEROES free?
IR: I just really hate capitalism. I’m a leftist and an unemployed college grad. Money is hard for me, but it’s harder still for others. I didn’t want to assign an arbitrary value to my art, to potentially keep it out of the hands of those who need it most. I did a giveaway for several copies of interlucent, and after seeing all the interest that garnered, I resigned to make my future self-published works free. People will still want to read it; it’s just that a barrier to doing so has been removed. I think every writer who isn’t in immediate need should also un-paywall their work. When NH drops, I’ll likely make interlucent free as well. Maybe on its first birthday?
EA: Why does self-publishing your chapbooks work for you? What are your favorite parts of the process and would you ever see yourself releasing a book via “traditional” publishing?
IR: I’m a control freak, essentially! I want to lay out the poems on the page, make my own covers, set a publication date, and edit until the last possible second. Plus, I’m blessed with a lovely follower base online, so I know the audience is there. All that’s left for me is to do the work.
My favorite part of the process with interlucent was putting out teaser tweets in the lead-up to its release date, along with snippets of the poems and aesthetically pleasing photos. I love curating aesthetics for my projects. It’s my favorite aspect of novel planning as well. Novelists will know what I mean when I say I spend more time on moodboards and playlists than on my drafts! For that reason, I also love making covers: it’s the singular distillation of your book’s message and mood. I do agonize a bit over them, but releasing both covers months in advance was a blessing in disguise. Now that I’ve shown it to the world, it’s done, and as I polish the chap, that cover is my north star, the touchstone I’m working toward deserving.
EA: Do you have a favorite poem from No Heroes? What is it about/can you share a snippet of it?
IR: I do! This is very much subject to change, of course, but my current favorite poem in NH is “past imperfect.” It’s forthcoming in late August with The Augment Review and it’s a short piece, so I shouldn’t spoil too much, but the first couplet reads: “The chest is the hollowest vessel. / The boats become jealous and go.” I’m quite proud of these lines; I think they establish the epic, mythic tone I’m going for well. I’m playing with the idea of having “past imperfect” be the “prologue” of NH. You know those poems that come before the table of contents? I don’t know what those are called because I’m not a real poet, but I want one of those. Stay tuned!
EA: Your debut chapbook interlucent was met with a lot of praise. Did you feel any added pressure or nervousness due to how well it was received when putting your second chapbook together?
IR: Ah, thank you so much! It’s true, interlucent was received so warmly; I’m still stunned by its reception. That was overwhelming, you know? The outpouring of support was both affirming and anxiety-inducing. I’m shy when receiving praise. I think, in some way, I’m nervous for either outcome of NH’s release -- either it surpasses interlucent and I’m once again overwhelmed, or it doesn’t and I feel I’ve let people down. I haven’t let myself down, though, which is important to remember. These are my favorite poems I’ve ever written. Are they the best poems I’ve ever written? Who knows (or cares)! I just hope my enjoyment translates to the page and readers feel fulfilled. I could care less about Goodreads ratings or starred reviews. If I feel the love I’ve invested into this project returned, that’ll be enough.
EA: Last spring, you founded the online literary journal perhappened and it’s since become an ever-growing community and has over 11,000 followers on Twitter alone. Did you ever think it would grow so quickly? What are some of the things you think most contribute to its success?
IR: Oh, my baby! perhappened is single-handedly the greatest joy and greatest stressor in my life. I can’t believe it’s grown so large, truly. I think people don’t believe me when I say there’s no secret to its success, but it’s true. It’s all due to hard work, like-minded creatives, and sheer luck. I started perhappened from my parents’ dining room table one wildfire summer in the middle of a pandemic. I needed something to keep me tethered to the earth, to other people. That it’s grown so much and attracted so much positive attention, I think, is a testament to how many writers feel the same. I heard so much buzz around our first issue, CARNIVAL, stemming from the fact that it was a rare moment of reprieve in an otherwise-hellish year. It gave people a means of escape, and that’s been our mission ever since. I owe its success entirely to the talents of our contributors, staff, and guest readers -- perhappened has become a lightning rod for their brilliance. The shine of genuine community is an enduring light, one that’s so much brighter than perhappened alone. I’m happy just to stand in it!
EA: Since then, you’ve also developed perhappened press and published two chapbooks as part of it. How did you decide to develop a press component to the magazine and where do you see it going in a few years?
IR: I have, and we’ve got another digital chapbook on the way this autumn (release date pending)! I’d love to see the press transition into print releases, maybe starting with microchaps? That was too difficult to organize in the thick of COVID in the US, and though the pandemic still poses significant challenges, I think that’ll be attainable in the next few years. I want to champion all the work I can, across all mediums and borders. It’s not a brand growth thing; I could care less if perhappened press becomes a household name (and I don’t know if my heart could take that!). I just believe deeply and earnestly in the work we choose to publish.
EA: What inspires you to write? How do you make time to do it regularly, in addition to submitting your own work to different magazines?
IR: It’s tough to say. I’ve actually been in a writing slump for the past few weeks, and I think more writers should say that candidly! Here’s the truth: I write way less frequently than you’d think, and not every writing day is remotely productive for me. Crying at my own perceived shortcomings is not uncommon. I dislike more of my poems than I like (though I sometimes find gems in old drafts). Thanks to the mag, my hobbies, and looking for work, I have less time to write than I’d like. Now that all of that’s out of the way, here’s what works for me!
Keep some physical note-taking medium on you. Phones are good, as is the Cloud, but devices die. Nothing beats a tiny notebook and a pen/pencil for those brief flashes of brilliance (and believe me, they are brief, so don’t wait)! Then, once you’ve got your ideas down, give them breathing room. Don’t force an idea. Come back when you feel ready and able and see what’s bloomed. Most of it won’t be groundbreaking; the art is in the pruning. See how you can retool what’s there into what it could be.
Also, don’t cross anything out or delete any files! Marina Abramović said once that she sits her students down with a thousand pieces of paper and a trash can. After several months, she takes the papers out of the trash can, and that’s all she reads. Those risky ideas and pieces that need work, lots of it? Take time to tend them. Finally, drink water and get some sleep for once. Your art and body will thank you! (Yes, I am talking to myself.)
EA: You’ve become pretty popular in the poetry community on Twitter over the last year—what are your favorite (and least favorite) parts about this? How does your presence on Twitter and social media as a whole impact what you do both as a poet/lit mag editor and personally?
IR: Haha, thank you! I’ve never had a following before, and there’s definitely a learning curve to having such a huge platform. I’ve said things I wish I could take back and been more candid than I probably should. I’m a loudmouth and I pick fights when I get righteously angry, but I’m trying to do less of that, even if it’s for the right reasons. Conversely, I know people have followed me for that very reason, so... sorry? I’m just a person, figuring it out.
At the time of this interview, I’ve actually been taking days offline at a time, only logging on when it’s necessary and minimally checking DMs and notifications. It’s the best I’ve felt in months! Of course, it’s important to keep up my mag’s online presence, but as far as my personal account goes, less has been more for me. Taking this step back has made my priorities clearer, and I feel mentally healthier as a result.
That said, the reality of life for many disabled, immunocompromised, and otherwise marginalized people (especially during a global pandemic) is such that social media is our primary method of socialization and connection. I don’t think that’s a bad thing! I’ve met amazing folks and lifelong friends through lit Twitter. Ultimately, as I’ve found my niche and my audience, I’ve felt more empowered to set boundaries and limits with my online engagement, and my people have been right there, quietly supporting me. That’s invaluable.
EA: Do you have any other projects currently on the horizon? Anything else you’d like to add that I didn’t ask?
IR: I have a few poems coming out in August, my birthday month, so watch out for those! Beyond that, I’m working on a novel that’s undergone many lives and rebirths, but I feel confident in saying it will be out eventually. If you also have a work in progress (or if your life feels like one big work in progress), I get it! I’d love to connect with anyone reading this on Twitter @isaurarenwrites, and you can always find more about me and my work at linktr.ee/isauraren. Thank you again for having me, Erica!
Born in 1995 in the Bay Area, Isaura Ren (they/them) has called both Texas & California home. They are a hellion, an only child, & their parents' favorite kid (they think). Ren is a queer poet, writer, & editor. In spring 2020, they founded the online literary mag & press perhappened, of which they are the Editor-in-Chief & Poetry Editor. Their poems have been internationally published online.
About the Interviewer
Erica Abbott (she/her) is a Philadelphia-based poet and writer whose work has previously appeared or is forthcoming in Serotonin, FERAL, Gnashing Teeth, Selcouth Station, Anti-Heroin Chic, and other journals. She is the author of Self-Portrait as a Sinking Ship (Toho, 2020), her debut poetry chapbook. She volunteers for Button Poetry and Mad Poets Society. Follow her on Instagram @poetry_erica and on Twitter @erica_abbott and visit her website here.
